Please HELP! I’m stumped…

14 Comments
28 Aug, ‍‍2012 - 5772 / 5773
Commentary, Foundations, Prophecy, the Law

Please HELP! I’m stumped…

I was reading in the book of Amos the other day and this verse really jumped out at me!

Amos 3:7 NET  Certainly the sovereign LORD does nothing without first revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.

This verse brought up a couple of key questions; the first one was fairly straightforward and completely answered within scripture, the second question (at the end of this article) is the one that has me stumped…

  • Is it possible to know who His Prophets are?  This is clearly defined in Deu 13:

Deu 13:1-5 NET  Suppose a prophet or one who foretells by dreams should appear among you and show you a sign or wonder,  (2)  and the sign or wonder should come to pass concerning what he said to you, namely, “Let us follow other gods” — gods whom you have not previously known — “and let us serve them.”  (3)  You must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer, for the LORD your God will be testing you to see if you love him with all your mind and being.  (4)  You must follow the LORD your God and revere only him; and you must observe his commandments, obey him, serve him, and remain loyal to him.  (5)  As for that prophet or dreamer, he must be executed because he encouraged rebellion against the LORD your God who brought you from the land of Egypt, redeeming you from that place of slavery, and because he has tried to entice you from the way the LORD your God has commanded you to go. In this way you must purge out evil from within.

This passage appears to say that a “Prophet” that teaches against the LORD’s commandments is a false Prophet. How does this line up with the entire context of scripture?  Here are just a few examples, there are many more.

Ecc 12:13 NET  Having heard everything, I have reached this conclusion: Fear God and keep his commandments, because this is the whole duty of man.

Joh 15:10 NET  If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

1Jn 3:4 KJV  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Is there a difference between the Father’s commandments and Jesus’ commandments?

Joh 5:30 NET  I can do nothing on my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the will of the one who sent me.

Joh 7:16 NET  So Jesus replied, “My teaching is not from me, but from the one who sent me.

Joh 12:49-50 NET  For I have not spoken from my own authority, but the Father himself who sent me has commanded me what I should say and what I should speak.  (50)  And I know that his commandment is eternal life. Thus the things I say, I say just as the Father has told me.”

All of these passages line up with Deu 13!

Now here is the question that has me stumped…

Amos is very clear:

Amos 3:7 NET  Certainly the sovereign LORD does nothing without first revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.

  • Where exactly did the LORD reveal to the prophets that his law would be set aside when the Messiah came?

I haven’t found it.  Not at all.  But please be a Berean search for yourself! If you find it please let me know!

The Church teaches that “the Law” has been set aside. Yet, it wasn’t Prophesied?  Such a huge paradigm shift should have had entire books focusing only on that one subject! But, there isn’t even a mention of it? As a matter of fact the last three verses of the Old Testament say the exact opposite of the Church’s doctrine:

Mal 4:4-6 KJV Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. (5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Remember it – only to set it aside?  Was Amos mistaken? Did he hear YHVH wrong?  Or, is it possible that we are the Gentiles of Jeremiah 16:19.

Jer 16:19 KJV  O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Will you be a Berean and allow God’s true, un-changeable and un-contradictable Word determine your doctrine? Most people won’t, they blindly accept their denominational traditions without any thought or study.

You can be a Berean and study the whole of scripture or remain blinded by the traditions of men, it’s your choice.

http://awakenedchurch.com/foundations/cbb/please-help-im-stumped

14 Responses

  1. ledfreedom
    ‍‍August 28, 2012 - 10 Elul 5772 at 4:01 pm

    The church fathers have taught that Yahshua did away with the law but never explain which law. First of all the Torah of Moses really means Yahweh’s loving instructions for His chosen ones to live by, the Law of Moses is also known as the Gospel and the Ketubah (Marriage Contract). When the Bible was translated from Hebrew to Greek but the Catholic Church they used Greek mentality and therefore call the Torah of Moses, the law, making it a legal term. Yahshua came to correctly interupt to Torah of Moses because the Levitical priesthood had built the Talmudic commentary around the Torah of Moses and were misusing Yahweh’s loving instructions against His pepole. The Levitical laws were temporary laws until Messiah came and correctly became the true Passover lamb. Matthew 5:17-18 says Do not think that i came to annul the Torah or the Prophets; I did not come to annul, but to fulfill.
    18. Truely I say to you, Until the heaven and earth pass away, in no way shall one yod or one stroke pass away from the Torah until all comes to pass.
    So far heaven and earth have not passed away so according to Yahshua the Torah of Moses is still Yahweh’s instructions to His people.

    Another way of looking at this subject is John 1 that says In the beginning was the Word (Yahshua) The Word (Yahshua) was with Yahweh, and the Word (Yahshua) was Yahweh.

    If Yahshua is the Word and He is Yahweh, then He cannot be done away with, His Torah is His Word and His instructions for life. If He Yahshua did away with Torah, then He did away with Himself.

    To give you something else to think about is Amos 3:1-2 Which says that the only family on earth that Yahweh knows is The sons of Israel. therefore the church did not replace Israel but to make it into the Kingdom of Yahweh, we must come through the Hosue of Israel. There are also 12 gates in the New Jerusalem and all 12 gates are named after the 12 tribes of Israel, nowhere is a Church gate mentioned anywhere in the Bible. (Think about it) Homer

  2. gbedevian
    ‍‍August 28, 2012 - 10 Elul 5772 at 5:06 pm

    Great article! You know, this is one reason the Jewish people cannot accept the Messiah Jesus that we have presented to them over the centuries. They would be accepting a prophet who did not adhere to God’s Word or the law of Moses. In their eyes, we have presented a false prophet, who did away with the Word, although, that is not at all what is shown in the NT.

    You know, when I try to share these things with my brothers and sisters in Christianity, where I came from, a common reply is that I have one of many different views of protestant theology, one of thousands of different denominations Christianity has provided. They ask, “what makes my theology the right one”?

    What if we all forsook our denominations and went back to the Word as we have in every one of our homes? We could all get on the “same page” again.

  3. smbobeck
    ‍‍August 28, 2012 - 10 Elul 5772 at 5:12 pm

    Thank you for this message, I fully agree. It will be a hard time for many so called Christians, if they do not believe in JHWH and follow His commandments

    Please could you send 2 DVD e-sword to my address:
    (Edited to remove address)
    Germany

    Thank you and may JHWH bless you in your work!

  4. puleo263
    ‍‍August 28, 2012 - 10 Elul 5772 at 5:32 pm

    Man and his lack of wisdom and respect for YHVH has changed the word but YHVH remains true because He is the word

    Mal 3:6-7

    6 “But because I, Adonai, do not change,
    you sons of Ya‘akov will not be destroyed.
    7 Since the days of your forefathers
    you have turned from my laws and have not kept them.
    Return to me, and I will return to you,”
    says Adonai-Tzva’ot.
    “But you ask, ‘In respect to what
    are we supposed to return?’
    CJB

    Jer 6:16-19
    6 Here is what Adonai says:

    “Stand at the crossroads and look;
    ask about the ancient paths,
    ‘Which one is the good way?’
    Take it, and you will find rest for your souls.
    But they said, ‘We will not take it.’
    17 I appointed sentinels to direct them:
    ‘Listen for the sound of the shofar.’
    But they said, ‘We will not listen.’
    18 So hear, you nations; know, you assembly,
    what there is against them.
    19 Hear, oh earth! I am going
    to bring disaster on this people;
    it is the consequence
    of their own way of thinking;
    for they pay no attention to my words;
    and as for my Torah, they reject it.
    CJB

  5. revrich2007
    ‍‍August 28, 2012 - 10 Elul 5772 at 6:00 pm

    After I came into the Truth about the church teachings my first thought was “The blind were leading the blind” My second thought was that 90% of the churches “Prophets” should have been stoned long ago. What an eye-opener to really at last read the Torah and understand the truth. I was like an outlaw in the church because I would say, “Well the Word says this, Why don’t we do it? Most of the time I was ignored or told that it was changed by the “church fathers” and we didn’t have to do it anymore. I am so glad that YHVH opened my eyes and I am no longer blind. When read Deu 13 I can see that that Prophet was telling them to do something other than what YHVH would command one of his Prophets to say. Any time someone calls himself a Prophet and then goes against the word of YHVH he is false from the start. We should have seen it while in the church but the wool was pulled over our eyes.

  6. Happyinthecountry
    ‍‍August 28, 2012 - 10 Elul 5772 at 6:19 pm

    So today I read a post that really helped me to be able to explain what I believe… Then my husband came home with info that confirmed it…then I got your email and there it was 3 witnesses! Time is very short and soon when the “church” finds out they have been lied to they will start asking questions…. Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and [things] wherein [there is] no profit.
    Shalom
    here’s the posting I read: …….I thank Trent for this: I strongly believe we have to search deeper than just the text in our Bibles as the Advisory has confused us with translations and Strongs is not always 100% answer for definitions.

    We all know that without Immanuel we would all be condemned but through Him and faith through only Him we have salvation. Keeping that in mind most teach that HE abolished the Law of Moses. Remember that that when HE came, at that point, all they had was the OT.

    Here is a side by side comparison of two verses:

    Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil (teach fully).

    The last word is Fulfil or in GREEK it was (plēroō). This word means to TEACH FULLY. SO plug that in and try that verse again.

    Jesus is saying that HE came to teach the LAW to the everybody in FULL. Not what Pharisees were teaching. They were adding. Jesus came to teach what HE meant from the beginning (TORAH)

    Now to show that the word Fulfil in that verse does mean to teach fully, here is a verse about something else, using the same word from the Greek (plēroō).

    Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached (plēroō) the gospel of Christ.

    If we are taught the word Fulfil in the Matthew verse above means COMPLETED then insert COMPLETED where Paul says (“fully preached”) below because that word in the original Greek writings was plēroō, the same word that appears in the Matthew verse above.

    19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached (insert completed here ) the gospel of Christ. (this would mean he is done and no longer needed)…..could you imagine if Paul quit preaching at that point…

    In my opinion this is proof the Law still applies. So if anyone says to you “Jesus did away with the law because he completed it”, you can show these to verses back to back.

    Here’s the pdf my husband brought home
    http://www.inthatday.net/892376/GospelOfKingdom.pdf

  8. DrDave Perry
    ‍‍August 28, 2012 - 10 Elul 5772 at 10:42 pm

    Question – “Where exactly did the LORD reveal to the prophets that his law would be set aside when the Messiah came?”

    Gen.49:10 ‘The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until
    Shiloh come; …’ (Shiloh – epithet [another name] for Messiah i.e. Title of Yahshua – Gen.3:15)

    This is more than a pronouncement (which is fundamental in itself) this is prophesy – ‘until’ being an awareness of impending change. That some would very much like to explain away. They would have a much easier time if it weren’t for the fact that the Apostle Paul (and others) gives evidence of this ‘change’ in the New Testament. The question to ask is; ‘where’d they get this stuff – Rabbi School?’ If that were so, the world should be filled with this knowledge but it’s not.

    Gal 3:19 ‘Wherefore then serveth the law? (the Book of the Law v:10) It was added because of
    transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; … ‘

    Heb 9:10 ‘Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances,
    imposed on them until the time of reformation.’ (specifically) ‘Messianic restoration’.

    Act 3:21 ‘ … until the times of restitution of all things …’ (Peter v:12)

    Act 6:14 For we have heard him (Stephan v:8) say, that this (Yahshua) of Nazareth shall destroy this
    place, and *shall change* the customs which Moses delivered us.

    Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye (Yah), to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which
    neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

    Heb 7:12 ‘For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.’
    (Please read Heb.7:1-17 for your full edification enjoyment)

    Yah’s Esteem

  9. cbb
    ‍‍August 28, 2012 - 10 Elul 5772 at 11:01 pm

    Are you making the point the law being set aside was prophesied? If so, I’d like to point out that if you Acts 6:14 is part of the false accusation…

    And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council, And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law: For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
    (Act 6:12-14 KJV)

    So from this one set of verses Yahshua was NOT changing the Customs of Moses. That was the FALSE accusation.

  10. exaltthenameofYeshua
    ‍‍August 29, 2012 - 11 Elul 5772 at 12:35 am

    Thank you Clint for DVD, let someone use it to put on their computer and never got it back told her to pass it around if she finds it.
    Now know things have been removed and mistranslated in some cases but in this case used all the bibles on my e-sword and do not agree with the net bible, it appears that each version had a problem with that translation. I am reading from Amplified but it is also different in ESV, and Bishops bible, and a couple others, the problem is commas there is a comma after every word so obviously they did not know.
    Now this is my thoughts because God would never give a prophecy and have it come true to tell the prophet even testing him to follow after other gods. Now what I believe is the prophecy came true what ever the prophecy was and god wanted to test him to see what he would do haven give a true prophecy, so then as we see how many like attention he draws the people off to follow other gods. Amos and other true prophets is who Amos was talking about.
    Deut 13:1 IF A prophet arises among you, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or a wonder,
    Deut 13:2 And the sign or the wonder he foretells to you comes to pass, and if he says, Let us go after other gods–gods you have not known–and let us serve them,
    Deut 13:3 You shall not listen to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your [mind and] heart and with your entire being.
    Deut 13:4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and [reverently] fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice, and you shall serve Him and cling to Him.
    Deut 13:5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has talked rebellion {and} turning away from the Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of bondage; that man has tried to draw you aside from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So shall you put the evil away from your midst.

  11. exaltthenameofYeshua
    ‍‍August 29, 2012 - 11 Elul 5772 at 12:38 am

    By the way, do not follow church teachings of doing away with the law, the scriptures you gave should prove that, Jesus followed the law and he did whatever He saw the Father do or told Him to do, so they have no case to stand.

  12. Chaplain JC
    ‍‍August 30, 2012 - 12 Elul 5772 at 1:46 pm

    Funny article title. I like how you draw people into search the scripture at all levels of theological and Jewish interpretation for what it really means, not from the witchcraft pulled over the average person whose spiritual Rhea (eyes) are blinded by the advesary etc.

    The IsraEli Law consists of many levels, not just one word ie statuates, ordinances, judgements.Duet 6:1/7:11. It’s no different than other laws administered in modern nations. The over 600 instructions was given based off of 10 basic principles. They were to be interpreted by leaders how and when to be applied based off two-Love the Eternal One with everything and Love your neighbor as yourself.

    So the severity of these laws on relationship sins and others must be mediated under Love, yet understanding that GOD will punish adultry and other sexual sins not repented from. The Apostolic letters are clear on this matter that no one will inherit the Kingom of Elohim doing this kind of misconduct and harboring a yetzer hara spirit(EVIL DESIRE).

    The real battle is over legal interpretation of living the spirit of the TORAH and what does it look like from a TOV RUACH HA KODESH perspective Galations 5 chapter.

    If a person is a true prophet of GOD, they will speak from the foundation of the TORAH and with the VOICE OF THE ETERNAL ONE whereby they will immulate what was already written about the Mashiach in letter (alef tov), and mitzvot(good actions).

    This is straight from the stump of Jesse(Netzer) IsaYAH 11:1-4!

  13. Bryan Huie
    ‍‍September 22, 2012 - 6 Tishrei 5773 at 10:00 am

    Excellent points, Clint. Just as most Jews have been blinded to the identity of their Messiah, most Christians have been blinded to the truth of Yah’s Law:

    ROMANS 11:30 For as you [Gentiles] were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their [the Jews] disobedience,
    31 even so these [Jews] also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you [the Gentiles] they [the Jews] also may obtain mercy.
    32 For God has committed them ALL [Gentiles and Jews] to disobedience, that He might have mercy on ALL. (NKJV)

    Baruch Hashem!

  14. Kalil
    ‍‍May 14, 2013 - 5 Sivan 5773 at 5:58 am

    Kul Tov

    i am assuming this post was written by Clint, if not then i would like to thanks ‘please he;p’

    awesome revelation, and thanks for posting it.

    Shalom Aleichem

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